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Fines

Help dispel some rumours about unions or companies in the this sector.
krazytwacy

Fines

Postby krazytwacy » Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:29 pm

The TWU is constantly saying that they will fine the employees who cross and I have checked into this. They can try to fine you but enforcing it is difficult. Also I believe that there is so much Misinformation about this issue that the Union would have a really tough time proving the charges they bring to the members.



minkeymink

Postby minkeymink » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:37 pm

I know, this one is really a dead issue to the people inside. It is only the people outside who believe they will get their justice through fines... MANY people have not crossed because they are scared of the fines... I would rather have support for what I believed in then a bunch of people scared of the union... Thats great...



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Postby Phoenix66 » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:10 pm

You can also use their own constitution against them when they try .. for starters .. it states quite clearly that similar acts will be considered one charge.. eg: Crossing is a charge.. not everytime you crossed.. soooo.. they are trying to get Max $1000 fine from you .. Good Luck

2nd-- if you are called for a tribunal , which will consist of 9 TWU members to be your "jury".. you can state that you object on the grounds of perception of Bias. They are obligated to selct 9 more from a different union .. and pay them. So basically they will be forced to spend $$ trying to collect it from you .



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Postby Wwood » Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:25 pm

I can't wait to get the call. Then the 2nd, 3rd, 4th. No way I would dignify them with my presence at their little kangaroo court. They really must think they are much more important than they are to think that people would be shaking in thier boots about this. Send it to a collection agency. Best of luck. If I were in a twu leasership position I would be very afraid of a class action by the members on deriliction of duty.



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Postby mowerpower » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:24 pm

I know... If we start getting fines... that will definately happen... we will not stand for that... especially if it starts getting out of hand, like today, on day 40, I would owe 40,000 + all my wages and O/T...try it... Class Action will be initiated instantly... I am surprised Bruce Bell hasn't stepped in to let them know. He has got to know what this could potentially cost the TWU... he also knows that we can only be fined a maximum of $1000.00 and he also knows that this would only cause further dissention among us... NOT helping his cause at all.. this is not a fight against us... don't make it one..



krazytwacy

Not in Alberta

Postby krazytwacy » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:41 pm

Not in Alberta anyways. They didn't inform alot of people this was going to happen.



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Postby pegleg » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:50 pm

oh man I hate those damn wannabes on the line. who do the think they are???? well I know i will not be going to the food bank any time soon


we love you peg

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Re: Not in Alberta

Postby Domino » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:53 pm

Not in Alberta anyways. They didn't inform alot of people this was going to happen.
I'm sorry, but you would have to be pretty dense to NOT know it was going to happen. The only real suprise is that it didn't happen sooner.



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Postby Ash » Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:38 pm

You can also use their own constitution against them when they try .. for starters .. it states quite clearly that similar acts will be considered one charge.. eg: Crossing is a charge.. not everytime you crossed.. soooo.. they are trying to get Max $1000 fine from you .. Good Luck
Exactly.

Even if they tried to fine people multiple times, they would have to hold one trial board for every charge against the accused. Given the number of people who have crossed, that would be a logistical nightmare. Especially when each and everyone could be appealed to an ombudsman...to whom it could be argued that while people are physically crossing the line more than once, it is one single ongoing act, and limit it to a single charge.


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Postby Domino » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:22 pm

You can also use their own constitution against them when they try .. for starters .. it states quite clearly that similar acts will be considered one charge.. eg: Crossing is a charge.. not everytime you crossed.. soooo.. they are trying to get Max $1000 fine from you .. Good Luck
Exactly.

Even if they tried to fine people multiple times, they would have to hold one trial board for every charge against the accused. Given the number of people who have crossed, that would be a logistical nightmare. Especially when each and everyone could be appealed to an ombudsman...to whom it could be argued that while people are physically crossing the line more than once, it is one single ongoing act, and limit it to a single charge.
Is it a single act and single charge if you rob 14 banks? Each occurance can result in an individual charge and each charge carries its own punishment. Yes, you can appeal each charge to an ombudsman. But that person choses, after seeing the information from both sides and the complaint from whoever is appealing, if the appeal has merit. If not the appeal will not be heard.



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Postby Ash » Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:42 pm

Is it a single act and single charge if you rob 14 banks? Each occurance can result in an individual charge and each charge carries its own punishment. Yes, you can appeal each charge to an ombudsman. But that person choses, after seeing the information from both sides and the complaint from whoever is appealing, if the appeal has merit. If not the appeal will not be heard.
Not even close to the same context. Multiple counts of the same crime are normally served concurrently, not consecutively.

Crossing the picket line is a single ongoing/continuing act of intent. A person may physically leave the building (eg: go home at night), but the person's intent has not changed. For example, I'm a Flames fan. I don't have to decide every morning that I want to be Flames, it is merely a continual state of being. The same applies to crossing the line. However, ultimately, it's up to the trial board and the ombudsman.

Given the bias displayed on VFC and on the picketlines, there is plenty of merit to support appeals. In fact, potential trial board members should have to reveal their VFC handle in order to make the trials as unbiased as the TWU constitution claims to outline. Not doing so would be a valid reason for appeal in its own right.


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Postby Domino » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:49 am

So, if you were given a ticket for speeding on Tuesday then again on Thursday you could tell the officer Thursday "no officer, I always speed and since I was given a ticket on Tuesday you can't give me another on"? Wow...good to know!

As for bias...if there is no bias displayed by the board at the trial there is no justification for appeal on those grounds. You insist that the members of the trial board must give their handles in online forums. Ok, that's fair. But only if the person charged has to do the same and the information from both is supplied to the ombudsman only.



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Postby Phoenix66 » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:15 pm


Is it a single act and single charge if you rob 14 banks? Each occurance can result in an individual charge and each charge carries its own punishment. Yes, you can appeal each charge to an ombudsman. But that person choses, after seeing the information from both sides and the complaint from whoever is appealing, if the appeal has merit. If not the appeal will not be heard.
read the full clause again (you know.. the one that was suspended in the lockout measure and never applied in Alberta anyway?)..if i had my book here I would quote it to you.. it states that incidences of a similar nature shall be comined in the one charge, with the penalty not to exceed $1000.
Soooo. Crossing in itself is a charge.. not each time you did it.
Nice try tho :)
and.. it DEFINITELY is not the wages i made each time..



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Postby mowerpower » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:43 pm

I think the saddest part about all these threats is that TWU HQ is encouraging it and putting out pamphlets, knowing full well that:

A) the maximum CHARGE can only be $1000.00

B) the case law they are stating is talking about small amounts of money, not thousands - and in NO WAY comparative to our case.

They are encouraging this because they see it pumping the people up and keeping them on the line...

Its all propaganda...



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Postby Domino » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:26 pm

and.. it DEFINITELY is not the wages i made each time..
I never said that it was.




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