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Talk here about issues with unions or companies in the Telecommunications sector.
wimpole1
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Postby wimpole1 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:05 am

George is probably writing letters to explain his position. When all the letters come out they will surely end up on this forum. Alberta will Not be shat upon!



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Postby alec » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:04 pm

too bad you can't decertify based on geographical boundaries. there never will be a better time.


TWwho?

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Postby wimpole1 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:24 am

Most locals have already, unofficially decertified. It's obvious by the number of members that turn up at union meetings. The union exec. just haven't acknowledged it yet. They just keep collecting our dues and paying themselves a whole s**t load of money. (for what?) They squabble amongst themselves. What a team!! They don't even trust each other. It will be interesting to see if they turn up after Christmas holidays all tanned an relaxed. They deserve the best. Right?



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Postby NC » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:48 am

You can't even have a mass card cancel initiative because I suspect the CA requires you to be a member in good standing to ratify a new CA.

You guys should all just not ratify the next agreement... vote the thing down. Drive Telus to lock you out again, then you can all cross and just never ratify the agreement. I wonder if Telus would go ahead and ignore the rules and implement merit increases?

Just ignore the union. What would hapen if Telus stopped forwardinig dues during the "event". Sort of a tax revolt, where union dues are "taxes".


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby alec » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:56 am

based on past expereince I think that is exactly the sort of thing that TELUS is likely to do. They would be very happy to not have a signed contract. I didn't vote for the last one and I have no intention of voting for this one.


TWwho?

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Postby wimpole1 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:31 pm

last time before the strike/lockout (?) the company didn't collect dues. After it was over the union made members cough up the arrears dues and if they didn't they would not get the 1000.00 from the union when they retired. Nice, eh? So members paid up the couple of hundred dollars in order to get the 1000.00 when they retired!



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Postby green1 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:48 pm

interestingly, during the lead up to the last strike the company slowly implemented many "soft lockout" measures which were mostly a means of slowly implementing the new collective agreement that the union had refused to allow the members to vote on.

The union completely ignored all of these measures until the company stopped automatically deducting dues. That caused an IMMEDIATE reaction from the union in the form of a work-to-rule campaign...

I found that very telling, it shows exactly what the union cares about. their income stream, nothing more. Had they been at all interested in the members they would not have waited until their income stream was cut off to start doing something.

If I thought there was even an ounce of common sense left in the union, I would say they'd never be stupid enough to go through with labour action again this time around... however as it is, I wouldn't put anything past them...



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Postby NC » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:38 pm

I don't think this time around the TWU is going to have anything like control over what happens. It will be completely up to Telus and its employees.

If Telus decides it wants the union gone, it will make noise along that line, the employees will decide what they want, not the "Members". There's a telling difference in my presentation there. Most Telus employees are not "Members" they are employees. They went through this once, and if they did not go throught it, they are new and have no fealty towards the TWU.

I hope there's a chance you guys can get out from under the TWU, they do nothing and are paid handsomely for it. Let's see if the handlers at Telus are awake at the wheel.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby alec » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:20 pm

NC.

wasn't there a posting at some time in the past where we discussed the requirements for a decertification? It might be worth while spreading some information aroung the company to stir things up a bit.


TWwho?

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Postby NC » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:20 pm

The decert rules are easy to find:

http://www.labourwatch.com/forms/decert-en-nc-ca.pdf

It's the "window" that is a challenge.
You can only apply to decertify the union during an open time period. Also, unless the Canada Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) agrees, you cannot apply during a legal strike or lockout.
The open time periods are:
Where there is a collective agreement:
a. If the Collective Agreement is for 3 years duration, or less: during the last 3 months of the collective agreement.
b. If the collective agreement is for greater than 3 years: during the last 3 months of the third year, during the last 3
months of each year thereafter, or during the last 3 months of the collective agreement.
c. If the employer voluntarily recognized the union: at any time during the first year of the collective agreement. After
the first year of the collective agreement, the timing rules set out in (a) and (b) above apply.
d. If a collective agreement is for 3 years or less and if the collective agreement has expired and if a new collective
agreement has not been negotiated, a decertification application may be filed.
I would happily assist anyone with whatever resources LabourTalk can supply, but I doubt it would work, we're talking about thousands of signatures.

Cards or petitions are good for 6 months, so that's a lot of signatures in 6 months. You would need a grassroots style support program. Not impossible, but damn hard. No disrespect intended but Telus union people are very apathetic about their situation. s I have said in the pastm i think they all look at it as a tax of some kind, just pay it, you have to pay dues to work here.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby alec » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:35 pm

Yes, it certainly is more entertaining having the union around.


TWwho?

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Postby wimpole1 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:44 am

There has been a rebuttle to this letter and a response. They will be posted shortly.



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Postby wimpole1 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:59 am

You will notice that the answer from George Doubt follows this letter. It will help to read the second e-mail first. It is in response to the first letter that was posted here a while ago. Confusing or what!

Sent: December-31-10 6:42 PM
To: 'George Doubt'; 'John Carpenter'; 'john hockley'; 'Dale Warner'; 'Tamara (Mike) Marshall'; 'Betty C'; 'Colin Brehaut'; 'Dave DiMaria'; 'cindy.orivolo@twu-stt.ca'; 'Michael Thompson'; 'lee.riggs@twu-stt.ca'; 'Robin Arndt'; 'alyson.williams@twu-stt.ca'; 'betty lockhurst'; 'Ivana Niblett'; 'Delores Pilsl'; 'Tricia Watt'; 'Maria Zonni'; 'Martin Cabral'; 'Isabelle Miller'; 'Paolo'
Cc: 'Jenn Bucholtz'; 'lance.trevison@twu-stt.ca'; 'Harmony Jackson'; 'Jacqueline Straw '; 'Dave Turcotte'; 'laura thorson'; 'john.bass@twu-stt.ca'; 'Kelly Thompson'
Subject: RE: Please Find attached


Hi George,


Thank you for your response, However your position on this matter has now put you in a bit of a situation and in fact puts the Constitution in conflict with itself. The opportunity had been provided to you, to relieve the situation but you chose to take a literal interpretation, I purposely did not make reference to

ARTICLE XIII

Convention Committees





8. Vacancies on Committees

A vacancy will occur on all elected Convention Committees when a member ceases to hold Convention Delegate’s credentials.


The election of all committees shall include two alternates receiving majority of votes. These alternates shall fill vacancies for the

remainder of the unexpired term of the Committee.


Except as otherwise required by this Constitution, whenever a vacancy occurs on any appointed Committee, the President with

the approval of the Executive Council may appoint a member to serve for the unexpired term of the Committee.


As it was my opinion that in the case of the Bargaining Committee, it did not apply. But as you have decided that it does you have through this INTERPRETATION of the Constitution, Put this union in peril.

Why you might ask?

Let’s look at the Bargaining Committee.

5. Bargaining Committees

The Bargaining Committees shall consist of the President and a structure determined by the

affected Bargaining Unit, subject to approval of the Convention or the Executive Council in the

case of a newly organized Bargaining Unit.

You see sometimes interpreting the constitution involves looking beyond the actual words that are written. This would have been one of the cases. You are saying to yourself where are you going with this.

Article 5 is based on the Bargaining Unit, not the Policy Convention. But you have decided this is not the Case, so Let’s move on.

Lets take apart Article XIII section 8

all elected Convention Committees- this refers to all committees elected by Convention, I will Stress based on your interpretation this means ALL committees.


when a member ceases to hold Convention Delegate’s credential. We need to look at the definition of Convention Delegate.


ARTICLE VII

Conventions


4. Composition of Convention

(a) The Convention shall be comprised of members of the Executive Council, Chair and Vice-

Chair and Local Delegates elected in accordance with Local Bylaws. Provincial Minimum

Representation shall be on the following basis as determined by the official provincial

membership count as determined by the Union office on November the 1st preceding the

Convention.


1 delegate for each 100 members.


Each Local Minimum Representation shall be on the following basis, as determined by the

official membership record in the Union office on November 1st preceding the Convention.

1-100 one delegate, and one delegate for each 200 or portion thereof.

Where the total number of delegates to be elected by Locals within the Province is seen to

be lower than Provincial Minimum Representation it shall cause the following to occur.

R 09.07.21 R 09.07.21 R 07.07.12


The difference between the total numbers of delegates elected by the Locals in the Province,

and the Provincial Minimum Representation for that Province shall be calculated. Where the

number of delegates elected by Locals within the Province equals or exceeds the Provincial

Minimum Representation no further action shall occur. Where the number of delegates

elected by Locals within the Province is lower than the Provincial Minimum Representation,

then this shortfall of representation shall be distributed for election by the Locals within that

Province as additional delegates. This distribution shall be as follows:

Each Local within the Province shall be listed largest to smallest, along with their current

delegate count. Each Local starting at the largest and working towards the smallest shall be

eligible to elect, subject to availability, an additional number of delegate positions to a

maximum of 40% of their current delegate count. Where this calculation results in ½ a

delegate (i.e. .5) or higher, then it shall round up. This distribution shall continue until the

shortfall of representation is exhausted. The total number of delegate positions distributed to

Locals shall not exceed the shortfall in representation.


Retiree local members shall not be considered when determining Provincial Minimum

Representation. Each Retiree local shall be represented on the following basis, as determined by the official

membership record in the Union office on November 1st preceding the Convention.

1-100 members, one delegate, and one delegate for each additional 200 members or portion thereof.

The total number of delegates from the Retirees’ Local shall not exceed six (6).


(b) Each Local may elect an Alternate Delegate for each Delegate elected who shall attend the

Convention in the event the regular Delegate is unable to attend.


(c) When a Delegate is elected Chair of the Convention a duly elected Alternate Delegate from

their Local shall serve as the Convention Representative for the duration of the Chair’s term.


(d) In the event that the Convention Delegate and the Alternate are unable to attend Convention,

a member of the Local Executive shall attend in their place. The Local Secretary shall be

responsible for notifying the Credentials Committee of this change.


You will notice that the only place that Convention Delegate is used is in Section 4 (d) Convention delegate has been determined to be a member elected by the local or their elected alternate, or a member of the local executive in the event they cannot attend.


So it is very specific as to the definition of a convention delegate.


Now let’s look at replacement.


The election of all committees shall include two alternates receiving majority of votes. These alternates shall fill vacancies for the remainder of the unexpired term of the Committee.


So the replacement is by alternates elected by Convention.


Now, your predicament, you stated that Sister Jackson was removed as per article XIII Part 8 – based on a vacancy created by not having Convention Delegate Status. I put to you that in fact there are 4 other members of that Committee who do not hold Convention Delegate Status.


I direct you to composition of Convention

4. Composition of Convention

(a) The Convention shall be comprised of members of the Executive Council, Chair and Vice-

Chair and Local Delegates elected in accordance with Local Bylaws. Provincial Minimum

Representation shall be on the following basis as determined by the official provincial

membership count as determined by the Union office on November the 1st preceding the

Convention.


You will notice that Executive Council does not have Convention Delegate Status.

Now I also believe we have another Committee elected by Convention which has members on it, which are not delegates. This Committee must be replaced by Alternates who still maintain their Delegate’s Status In accordance with your interpretation.

So as I see it there are 2 Choices to be made

Choice 1 – Return Sister Jackson to the Bargaining Committee, and an announcement that an error had been made in the interpretation of the Constitution.

Choice 2 – Maintain the Interpretation of the President Dated December 15, 2010, and therefore declare vacant all positions not held by delegates on ALL ELECTED COMMITTEES , including the Bargaining committee.


This is the reason you cannot change one portion of the constitution without changing other relative or child sections.

In Solidarity


Ron Palmer

President Local 207

Telecommunciations Worker’s Union

Edmonton




From: George Doubt [mailto:George.Doubt@twu-stt.ca]
Sent: December-15-10 3:44 PM
To: Ron Palmer; 'John Carpenter'; john hockley; Dale Warner; 'Tamara (Mike) Marshall'; 'Betty C'; Colin Brehaut; Dave DiMaria; cindy.orivolo@twu-stt.ca; Michael Thompson; lee.riggs@twu-stt.ca; 'Robin Arndt'; alyson.williams@twu-stt.ca; betty lockhurst; Ivana Niblett; Delores Pilsl; 'Tricia Watt'; Maria Zonni; Martin Cabral; Isabelle Miller; Paolo
Cc: Jenn Bucholtz; lance.trevison@twu-stt.ca; 'Harmony Jackson'; Jacqueline Straw ; Dave Turcotte; laura thorson; john.bass@twu-stt.ca; 'Kelly Thompson'
Subject: Re: Please Find attached



December 15, 2010




Hi Ron


Thank you for your e-Mail of Dec 13, 2010.


Harmony Jackson was one of six Convention Delegates elected to the TWU / TELUS Bargaining Committee at our 2010 convention. Three alternates were also elected at that time. The elections were done as required by the constitution and consistent with TWU Policies.

TWU POLICIES

CONVENTION POLICY

Nominations/Elections


D) The Bargaining Committee for the TELUS Bargaining Unit shall consist of the President, a minimum of three (3) members of Executive Council and a minimum of six (6) Convention Delegates nominated and elected by Delegates of that Bargaining Unit. Any increase to these numbers shall be included on the Agenda that is put forward by Executive Council and approved by Convention.


All of the Bargaining committee elections were national positions and there were no elections for any specific geographic region.


Sister Jackson was a COS operator and a member and Convention Delegate for Local 203. Her office was closed by TELUS. The TWU launched a policy grievance over that closure. The grievance went to arbitration and the arbitrator dismissed the grievance. The TWU asked for a Judicial Review of that decision and the decision was upheld. There is no grievance in progress.


Sister Jackson was able to move to a job within the jurisdiction of local 213. At that time according to TWU policy she should have become a member of local 213.


Local 203 decided (in May 2010 or earlier), as they have the authority to do, that Sister Jackson would remain in office for the remainder of her elected term only which term ended in November of this year.



TWU POLICIES

GENERAL POLICY



Locals

13. Local Membership Jurisdiction

(1) Members must belong to Local having jurisdiction for their classification in their permanent headquarters. Paid Officers may retain Local membership for as long as they hold office.


(2) For Local Officers changing jurisdictional boundaries, the original Local shall decide whether or not a transferring Officer can retain office for the remainder of that elected term only.

(3) The new Local of the transferring member shall process the transferring member and shall be empowered to initiate, process and effect the transfer with or without the signature of the transferring member.



Harmony Jackson was not eligible to run for election in local 203 after she accepted a position in the jurisdiction of local 213.


The TWU constitution deals with vacancies on elected and appointed committees in different ways.


ARTICLE XIII

Convention Committees





8. Vacancies on Committees

A vacancy will occur on all elected Convention Committees when a member ceases to hold Convention Delegate’s credentials.


The election of all committees shall include two alternates receiving majority of votes. These alternates shall fill vacancies for the remainder of the unexpired term of the Committee.


Except as otherwise required by this Constitution, whenever a vacancy occurs on any appointed Committee, the President with the approval of the Executive Council may appoint a member to serve for the unexpired term of the Committee.




Sister Jackson was not removed from the Bargaining Committee. When she ceased to be a convention delegate a vacancy was created on the Committee by operation of the Constitution.


Sister Laura Thorsen the first alternate elected by convention has filled that vacancy.


There is no authority in the constitution for the President or anyone else to appoint anyone to an elected committee. That authority applies only in the case of appointed committees.


No convention decision has been overturned.


You put forward the proposition that membership in the TWU is not through the Local. The TWU constitution and policies are clear , Members must belong to the Local having jurisdiction for their classification in their permanent headquarters. (TWU General


Policy 13, see above) Local bylaws must conform to the Constitution and Policies of the Union.


Article 5 Para 12: of the constitution provides specific rights to Associate or Honorary Members. Sister Jackson is not an Associate or an Honorary Member


ARTICLE V

Membership

9. Honorary membership shall be granted to all Retired Members of the Union in good standing.

11. A member of the Union laid off or who otherwise leaves the employment of a Company certified with the Union may remain a member of the Union as an Associate Member by paying to the Secretary-Treasurer, on or before the 15th of the month, the sum of one dollar ($1.00) to be deposited in the General Fund.

12. An Associate or Honorary Member shall be entitled to attend Local Meetings. They shall have a voice but shall not be eligible to hold any office or be entitled to any voting privileges.



The rights of regular members are covered in the Policies they have not been omitted.


TWU POLICIES

GENERAL POLICY

15. A member in good standing in the TWU shall be entitled to attend any Local meeting. The member shall be entitled to a voice but not be eligible to hold any office nor be entitled to any voting privileges on Local matters, except in the Local in which they are a member.



You have not provided any information to show that the By laws of local 213 violate the constitution or policies of the Union.


You allege that “The by-laws of the Local are in contravention to the Human Rightsâ€



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Postby wimpole1 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:49 am

so the executive prima dona's have deemed it necessary to carry on giving the Union office on Lane St in Burnaby, B.C. a facelift and yet to quit paying dues to the house of labour (which is actually in the twu constitution so how did they get around that)?
Oh come on!! Just wait until they try and take away our $1000.00 we get when we retire!
Our union is down the toilet and yet we must redecorate! (Maybe let's go to some fancy restaurants or throw some great dinner parties at the members expense! (Per diems come to mind).
Who is responsible for these decisions? Let's spread it around. It's the shell game.



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why can't the TWU be this efficient?

Postby green1 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:11 pm

Recent CP rail labour negotiations, contract expired dec 31, bargaining started Jan 27, agreement reached Feb 4 and being put to the members for ratification. Meanwhile, we've been in negotiations for how many months now? And no word at all as to even what the issues are!




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