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Decertify TWU

Talk here about issues with unions or companies in the Telecommunications sector.
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NC
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Postby NC » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:40 pm

bby_joe, the unions in europe do not force employees to pay dues and you can choose not to join or be members. Unions are not allowed to use employee dues for political causes and they cannot stirke.

Also, union did not create the 5 day work week and they are not reposonsible for health care. The people who worked at those times did that, as well as the governments. The unions were helping the process and they were WELL paid for that service.

Now they are businesses and many of them do not represent the employeees and in some cases do not have the support of the majority of employees.

A Canada Labour Congress (Union Group) did a study that found something like 80% of *unionized* employees would like to work union-free.


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Postby wimpole1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:43 pm

NC: Unions are democratically elected organizations. If, as you say, the majority of union workers would like to work non union, the solutions is simple. You vote the union out. Yes you would have to vote them out at a union meeting. It is tiresome to hear that people are so unaware of how to get rid of their union. A little research on their part would be helpful.



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Postby green1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:01 pm

But it isn't as simple as "vote them out" the hurdles are immense. to start with, it would be illegal to vote out our union right now, there's only specific times we're allowed to do it, and now isn't one of them.

Add to that the fact that a union can organize one small group at a time, but to vote them out you have to get every part of the huge bargaining unit all at once. I can't get just my crew, or my local, or my city, or even my province to vote them out, I need EVERYBODY.

Additionally, to get a union in, you just need to get enough signatures. To get them out you need the signatures, just to get to a vote, which is run by the very organization you're trying to vote out (conflict of interest much?)

Union laws in this country are EXTREMELY biassed in favour of the unions, and are in breach of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Until those laws are changed to give individuals a choice in unionization, "just vote them out" is an extremely naive idea.

As for "democratic organizations"... have you been to a union meeting recently? There's nothing democratic about our union.



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Postby wimpole1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:13 pm

organize,organize,organize....it takes work, but it can be done. If you come from a defeatist stance you've already conceded.



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Postby green1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:18 pm

so you're advocating breaking the law by running a decert drive right now?

or are you going to admit that the law itself is a problem?

Unions can organize any time they want, but a decert is illegal until the union signs the new contract, and then it remains illegal to decertify for another 2 years and 9 months after that.



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Postby wimpole1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:18 pm

There is no collective agreement in place now. It's going to take time to organize anyways. Do you think it will happen overnight? By that time, if you have as many members as you speak of that want out, you should be able to have members at each meeting to vote on a resolution put forward by a member to get rid of the union then it will have to be acted on by the twu exec. It does take a lot of work, but if your heart is in it, it can be done. No breaking of the law though.

"Negotiations are ongoing. The parties have grouped items of a similar nature together to facilitate discussions during the 2nd pass through the tabled proposals. Meetings between the Bargaining Committee and Telus continue in Vancouver; dates are scheduled until December 9, 2010, and will resume January 11, 2011, with dates scheduled until March 31, 2011".

Then what? Remember the new contract has to be ratified by the membership.



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Postby green1 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:59 pm

maybe you missed the post at the start of this whole thread that stated exactly when it was legal to decertify....



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Postby wimpole1 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:40 am

so within 3 months of the end of 2011 a vote can take place. It will take a hell of a lot longer to organize a majority of members to get on board. Probably more of a sure thing would be the twu would merge with the Steel Workers and hopefully get swallowed up and spit out by the more experienced organization. You can bet that the exec. who were so impressed by the steel workers during the last dispute and ran around like star struck groupies will be the first to sign up for cushy jobs.

"OTTAWA, Feb. 8, 2010 – The United Steelworkers (USW) and the Telecommunications Workers Union (TWU) have signed a Strategic Alliance to work together on issues of common interest in Canada and globally.

The agreement was signed today in Ottawa by George Doubt, TWU National President and Ken Neumann, USW National Director for Canada.

“The USW is proud to join forces with TWU members in Canada,â€



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Postby hawk » Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:51 pm

No it depends on the length of the next contract.



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Postby wimpole1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:12 am

Then let's just vote out the good (if there is any) twu execs. (pres.vp's,sec treas, ba's etc) and elect the least influential,knowledgeable,socialist minded,member compassionate people who truly look out only for themselves and maybe then the members will rally in anger and voice their discontent. Wait!! that was already done and still the members whine. These guys are sitting pretty because they know that the members as a whole will not talk directly to them and voice their opinions. Sure we can do it on here. Do you think any of those self serving bastards read this?



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Postby hawk » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:25 am

There is the adgenda. You want the union gone anyway possible so you would just sabotage it until everyone else wants it gone too. If you don't want the union and your as good as you say you are, just leave a go where you'll be appreciated and payed what your worth. Oh wait you've been here for quite awhile and being the intelligent person you claim to be I guess you've already tried that. Didn't work hey. Or is there something else afoot maybe your not in the union just want to see if you can stir something up. Its not going to happen as bad as you make the union out to be, it would be infinitely worse without it.



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Postby wimpole1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:00 pm

You are so new. The exec of the twu are bickering so much between themselves and spending our hard earned dues on suing each other. We DO need a union, just not the gluttons that are in now.
It is so strange to read anyone on this site that so blatantly, and maybe without knowledge of the history of the twu, defending the recklessness of the yahoos that are spending your money. The twu exec. needs more like you to explain away their inadequacies. They sure aren't convincing the membership themselves. (sabotage?? have you been watching what the twu exec. has been doing to themselves in the past 5 years?)



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Postby NC » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:03 pm

Sabotage the TWU... why? Isn't that a bit like sabotaging the Titanic, I mean, why make the effort?

I think that of anyone started this process they would need to be very open and transparent.


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Postby green1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:46 pm

Hawk: I am in the bargaining unit at TELUS. I am not in the union (they don't want me... and I never wanted to be anyway)
I used to be management until the TWU had my job re-classified to bargaining unit.

Why would I leave TELUS? I can work for another company, but I like the company I work for. (in fact I've had several job offers in the past few years (and that's without me applying for any!) and I've turned them all down, including at least 2 that were non-union and paid more than I make now) Why should I let the intimidation tactics of a union force me out of a job I enjoy? I haven't tried to leave TELUS because I like working for TELUS, they are my employer, not the TWU. And I don't run away just because some union thug tells me to.

As for "infinitely worse without it" you (and every other union shill who comes on here beaking off) have yet to offer any proof, or even reasonable explanation as to how that would happen.

Right now the company takes care of it's employees, both union and non-union very well. The fact that the non-union people enjoy better benefits, and better pay proves that the part holding us back is not the company, but the union. Several of the things the non-union people have that the unionized people don't have were offered by the company and specifically rejected by the union. (bonuses for better performance, more flexible benefits, double time for all overtime for clerical positions)

The ONLY "bad" part right now IS the union, eliminating them would do nothing but good for the employees, the company, and society as a whole.

If the union wants me gone, it's easy, let me out of the bargaining unit! Forcing me to pay dues to a union when I don't want to be apart of it violates my charter rights and the UN declaration of human rights. I'll stop complaining about the union when they stop violating my rights.



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Postby wimpole1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:45 pm

green1: most members that wanted out of the union and made their managers well aware of their willingness to go on the company plan (so far) has been given management professional status or supervisor jobs. Maybe you are more valuable as a disgruntled union worker than on their team as a non-union worker. Even so it may be in the plan that you will get your wish.




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