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Case Law Involving Courts upholding Union fines in Canada

Discussion about the issue of Unions fining their members.
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Case Law Involving Courts upholding Union fines in Canada

Postby JohnDoe » Sat May 06, 2006 1:28 am

Case Law Involving Courts upholding Union fines in Canada

Solly vs CWC49(.pdf)
Andrews vs FFAW(.pdf)
Forsen vs PSAC(.pdf)
Mangatalv vs CAW(.pdf)


Have a great day everyone!

JohnDoe

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Postby green1 » Sun May 07, 2006 2:32 pm

- Solly vs CWC49 does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds expulsion from a union.
- Andrews vs FFAW does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds the union initiating a trial to determine if a member crossed a picket line.
- Forsen vs PSAC does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds suspension from a union.
- Mangatalv vs CAW does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds expulsion from a union.



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Postby rallyman1122 » Sun May 07, 2006 10:32 pm

More TWU propaganda!! It's too bad the TWU executive continues these attempts at harassment. What they should be doing is trying to build bridges to bring people together. Instead we see these continued efforts to stir up resentment once again.

People have asked me why I feel the TWU needs to be replaced. This is an example of the divisive attitudes that drive the TWU today. Until this ends, the TWU, in it's present form, is not capable of representing the membership.



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Postby bubba » Mon May 08, 2006 5:39 pm

Pay your fines! Those that were members of the TWU and crossed the legal picket lines, broke the terms of your membership, now it is time to pay for what you chose to stand for, and whom you chose to stand with.

You talk about mending bridges, well it's time you piss or get off the pot. Show just how much you want to "get along" by being adult and accepting the consequenses of your actions. Why would you expect people to accept you back, or even speak to you, if you stab them in the back with each passing day that you go without paying your fines.

It just goes to show you how SCABS think. They think only of themselves. Boo Hoo if your workplace is filled with poison. You can pat yourselves on the butt for that, no one else. The ball is in YOUR court, not ours. If you want things to progress past the current state, then it is the SCABS that will have to pay the piper what he is owed.

All you 3 people that actually use this forum can think about is how things negatively affect you. Well I am here to tell you that the rest of us COULD CARE LESS, until justice is served for your transgressions against those that stood strong. You have probably created a comfortable little paper world to live in where your actions were all just and good. But here in the real world, the actions of the SCABS are far from that, and taking a little responsibility for it would be a positive step in the healing process.

Just think how it looks to others when all SCABS talk about is how they will never lay their fines, and how they do not regret what they have done. Does that promote healing? So until such time as you little children fess up for what you have done, the reast of will continue to treat you as the outcasts as you have chosen to become.

The mark of the scab will follow you all until the end of time. Once visable, there will be few people in this world that will trust you. Trust and respect are things that you earn, they are not a birthright. Asking people to simply forgive a scab without consequence, is something that only a true scab could dream up, self centeredness and greed in it's pureest form. Lazy.

Instead of thinking of the easy way out, try thinking up a way to EARN it. It may be the first time in your lives that you have ever had to do this. But try.

Don't ask others to do your dirty work. It is the SCAB in the wrong here, and thus it is the scab that must ask for penance.

I can see why so very few visit here any more. It is a small scabby pity party, and very little else of interest or productive thought.

I will once again leave you all ( all 3 or 4 of you) to pat one another's butts. Good Job!


"She never begins an attack, nor, when once engaged, ever surrenders:she never wounds 'till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of treading on her.

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Postby rallyman1122 » Mon May 08, 2006 11:08 pm

I said I would post negatively but I just can't help myself.
Pay your fines! Those that were members of the TWU and crossed the legal picket lines, broke the terms of your membership, now it is time to pay for what you chose to stand for, and whom you chose to stand with.
What I stand for is simple. Equal representation and support from the local I am forced to pay dues to. Since the local executive doesn't want to let control of the power and money, I choice to treat them the same way I was treated before the strike. I ignore their weakass attempts to intimidate me.

By the way bubba, what fines? I am still a member in good standing even through I proudly crossed. No one has ever advised me of a tribunal or fines assessed.
You talk about mending bridges, well it's time you piss or get off the pot. Show just how much you want to "get along" by being adult and accepting the consequences of your actions. Why would you expect people to accept you back, or even speak to you, if you stab them in the back with each passing day that you go without paying your fines.

What fines, what consequences? Do I care if those who crossed talk to me? Can't really be worried about it either way. Think of this, where I work, those who crossed out numbered those who stayed out.
It just goes to show you how SCABS think. They think only of themselves. Boo Hoo if your workplace is filled with poison. You can pat yourselves on the butt for that, no one else. The ball is in YOUR court, not ours. If you want things to progress past the current state, then it is the SCABS that will have to pay the piper what he is owed.


My workplace is not filled with poison, is yours? Many who chose to stay on the picket line have chosen to move on. I respect them for making a decision that was good from their needs. If people are so unhappy, like you seem to be bubba, find a new job. TELUS is changing, people have to change with it.
All you 3 people that actually use this forum can think about is how things negatively affect you. Well I am here to tell you that the rest of us COULD CARE LESS, until justice is served for your transgressions against those that stood strong. You have probably created a comfortable little paper world to live in where your actions were all just and good. But here in the real world, the actions of the SCABS are far from that, and taking a little responsibility for it would be a positive step in the healing process.
Here in the real world of Alberta, I am confident that my actions are both legally and morally just. To bad you seem to be wrapped up in a world of unionism that seems to be from another time. Tell me this, how am I supposed to feel welcome in a union that chooses to refuses to acknowledge a significant part of the membership was marginalized before the strike by the few that held the power?
Just think how it looks to others when all SCABS talk about is how they will never lay their fines, and how they do not regret what they have done. Does that promote healing? So until such time as you little children fess up for what you have done, the rest of will continue to treat you as the outcasts as you have chosen to become.
Just think about how it looks when the union continues to lie about how they will be able to collect the fines and yet there has never been a case that was fought on court to support that decision? Does that promote healing? Your comments tell of your attitudes toward those that stood up for their rights and crossed. You are the one being a child with your attacks, bubba
The mark of the scab will follow you all until the end of time. Once visible, there will be few people in this world that will trust you. Trust and respect are things that you earn, they are not a birthright. Asking people to simply forgive a scab without consequence, is something that only a true scab could dream up, self centeredness and greed in it's purest form. Lazy.

Instead of thinking of the easy way out, try thinking up a way to EARN it. It may be the first time in your lives that you have ever had to do this. But try.

Don't ask others to do your dirty work. It is the SCAB in the wrong here, and thus it is the scab that must ask for penance.

I can see why so very few visit here any more. It is a small scabby pity party, and very little else of interest or productive thought.

I will once again leave you all ( 3 or 4 of you) to pat one another's butts. Good Job!

Continue your attacks, you simply reinforce that point I am making. The TWU survives on threats and intimidation. It is the way of unions since they begin, nothing has changed in the union world. In the real world people, companies, and employee associations have realized that the confrontational attitudes of 100 years ago are no longer needed, wanted, or are effective.



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Postby JohnDoe » Tue May 09, 2006 3:33 am

- Solly vs CWC49 does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds expulsion from a union.
- Andrews vs FFAW does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds the union initiating a trial to determine if a member crossed a picket line.
- Forsen vs PSAC does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds suspension from a union.
- Mangatalv vs CAW does NOT uphold a fine, it upholds expulsion from a union.
Sorry, hope I didn't confuse everyone, I wasn't trying to make a point one way or another, I was just pointing out some stuff that I found on one of the union's websites.


Have a great day everyone!

JohnDoe

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Postby green1 » Tue May 09, 2006 9:51 am

Sorry, hope I didn't confuse everyone, I wasn't trying to make a point one way or another, I was just pointing out some stuff that I found on one of the union's websites.
And I wasn't trying to attack you, I was just pointing out the folly of what the TWU posted... (as usual, lots of FUD, no substance)



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Postby JohnDoe » Tue May 09, 2006 12:04 pm

Pay ...
*Yawn* I got bored after this point. Was there something important in there that I should know?

I don't know about everyone else here, but I'm getting along great with most everyone, those that crossed and those that didn't. New friends on both sides of the line, we're all the same people and we all stood up for what we believed in.

So, what I mean to say is: "Cheers to all and to all a good, uh, week".


Have a great day everyone!

JohnDoe

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Postby NC » Tue May 09, 2006 6:25 pm

Bubba... what can one say...? P.Y.H.O.O.Y.A.

Now, no one forget that there are numerous lawyers waiting to represent union members pro bono if they are ever sued by their union. Even PSAC's president said the fines would not stand up in court. The dumba**<I hate censorship> local president went ahead anyway...

Go ahead Booba, ask to see proof of that.



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Postby NC » Tue May 09, 2006 7:26 pm

Bubba,

Unions are taking money from members to make an example of them, under the guise of “fines”.

The fines are nothing more than bullying. They serve no purpose other than to try to frighten members into submission. The only members they frighten are members like you, who through ignorance and or malice believe that the right to work in this country should only come to them through a business union.

People who think like you Bubba are a dieing breed, and the big unions are dieing with you. The dinosaur that is the business union will carry the Bubba’s of the world on its back off to where ever it is that Puff the Magic Dragon went. You enjoy the ride big fella cause fewer, and fewer, and fewer jobs will become available for the dinosaurs.

We measly 86% of the private Canadian workforce will most assuredly be patting each others bums, while you and the 14% of your union buddies letting the union executive will continue to manage your bums as they have for so long.

Say Hi to Puff for me eh.



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Bubba still around???

Postby santina » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:13 pm

Pay your fines!
wrong here, and thus it is the scab that must ask for penance.


I will once again leave you all ( all 3 or 4 of you) to pat one another's butts. Good Job!
:D hiya Bubba: Just catching up in my reading and surprised to see that you are still around....at one time I thought you were a space cadet, but after reading the bs you wrote -not worthy of being quoted in it's entirety-I realized that I was dead wrong. You are no space cadet. You are a deranged tent revival, pray to your TWU idol wanna-be crazy preacher, trying to pass on your inane religious beliefs. Burn Baby Burn!!! you are an idiot, those fumes from the bowels of hell have made you stupid, all that brimstone and crap you preach, or what you listen to when you get together with your equally stupid cohorts, has addled your brain. PS Buba: I rather pat my peers butts than kiss YOUR Union's a**!!!!

:twisted:



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Postby NC » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:56 pm

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Santina just got her fine letter?

bad santina, naughtyImage Santina.. no personal attacks on the website...

I loved reading that though. Bubba has obviously got a job at PSAC eh?


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby NC » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:59 pm

Bubba... what can one say...? P.Y.H.O.O.Y.A.

Now, no one forget that there are numerous lawyers waiting to represent union members pro bono if they are ever sued by their union. Even PSAC's president said the fines would not stand up in court. The dumba**<I hate censorship> local president went ahead anyway...

Go ahead Booba, ask to see proof of that.
he never asked... I wonder why... here is the proof that PSAC knows that fines are not enforcable. Read this Bubba.


Find - Desiderata - read it

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Postby dante666 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:02 pm

But but... but.... you mean that our Golden TWU could possibly be wrong??

But But But... They told me they used a Magic 8 ball for the important decisions!!!! the 8 ball never lies does it!!!

:lol:


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Case Law

Postby finian » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:03 pm

And I wasn't trying to attack you, I was just pointing out the folly of what the TWU posted... (as usual, lots of FUD, no substance)
Without even reading the text of the original cases posted, there is no doubt that you may be correct in that some of those cases upheld expulsions not fines but do you have any piece of case law where the labour board did not uphold a Union fine for crossing a legal picket line? I think that would be very hard to find. Especially since the Constitution is so clear on the matter.

Possibly the reason they posted the expulsion cases is because that is the next step. If the fine is not paid then expulsion is automatic. In that case, the other case law posted would then be relevant.

I realize this is somewhat of a contentious subject but whatever. I just wanted to point out the obvious. Also curious to find out if fines have been issued since there seems to be a media black out on the subject on VFC. Cheers.




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