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Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

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Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby NC » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:36 pm

I have trouble believing this, and I think it has to do with the definition of "poverty", Unifor conveniently fails to give us that. Let's look.

Image

When you can Google - global poverty rates by country - you can find this map almost right away... is Unifor's data skewed... erroneous or just intentionally untrue?

Image

You can look for yourself if you want, but I cannot make their numbers line up.

If you REALLY want to get to the heart of the affair, rather than believe LabourTalk or Unifor you can go to the OECD website's chart Titled Income Distribution and Poverty. My point is, whatever Unifor has publishedin that chart... I can't confirm it, but I can find data refuting it.


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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby green1 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:08 am

The chat might well have been labelled access to government social programs vs poverty. Or quality of health care, or education, or any of a large number of other factors. If they wanted useful data they would have shown either a change in poverty rate with a change in amount of unionization in a few locations over time. Or a break down of otherwise similar locations where unionization levels are the biggest difference (for example among different US States where other factors are relatively constant but levels of unionization vary. )



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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby green1 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:39 am

As for the numbers. Poverty rates throughout the world are calculated in very different ways and are set by national governments not by any international body. As a result they are very difficult to compare. The fact that most countries on that chat are completely unlabeled makes the verification of the numbers very difficult, If not extremely suspect. Also it is very difficult to see why they chose the specific countries they did unless it was just to cherry pick ones that would fit their graph.
Some quick poverty numbers I can find though. (Numbers from Wikipedia except Sweden which was not listed there, found on inequaliywatch and geographyreport)
Mexico poverty 48%
US poverty 15.1%
Canada poverty 9.4%
Germany poverty 15.5%
Sweden poverty 7%
France poverty 6.2%
Unionization numbers from OECD
Mexico 14.4%
USA 11.4%
Canada 27.4%
Germany 18.6%
Sweden 68.2%
France 7.8%

So that's all the countries they labelled. And the graph would look very different using the correct numbers.
Notably France, despite how they plotted it , appears to have the lowest unionization, yet also the lowest poverty rate. Mexico has higher union membership than either the US or France, yet by far the biggest poverty levels. And Germany has almost double Canada's Unionization, while also having almost double our poverty rate.

I'd say the graph is complete garbage. With some time we could create a real one. ..



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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby green1 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Ok, so they claim to have obtained this data from OECD, so I've done the same, and come up with this much less biased chart.
Unionization and poverty.png
It's easy to see how I could use the same types of tactics they must have to massage the data for the opposite answer. Drop the data points for Mexico, Ireland, France, and Korea for instance and the chart would have a very definite slant showing that poverty increases with increased unionization. (looks to me like they decided to omit places like Chile, Switzerland, and Hungary)

That said, I'm a little too honest to resort to their sorts of tactics.... Actually, I can't help myself... here:
Unionization and poverty (biassed).png
The biggest takeaway from this is that unionization and poverty are unrelated issues. the results are all over the map, Estonia has over 80% unionization, yet their poverty rate is over 30%. Switzerland on the other hand has less than 20% unionization, and a poverty rate of less than 15%.
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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby NC » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:12 pm

It it is to laugh. green1 Thank you VERY much for all of this.

For your reference: Time Vampire


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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby NC » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:57 pm

I was going to Tweet that chart you made up Green1 but jsut can't bring myself to do that. It's here for anyone to read who wants to.


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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby green1 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:02 pm

If you want to share it feel free. Though I recommend the first chart be included for honesty sake



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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby NC » Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:58 pm

Honesty!!?? You mean for clarity's sake, or how about for the sake of turnabout?


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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby green1 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:33 pm

I meant the first one I posted which shows the true OECD data. The second one I posted is pretty good for making a point though



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Re: Unifor's "Unionization and Poverty"

Postby NC » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:59 pm

I was showing my wife the data but she can't see it!!! If I log onto her machine I can see it.

John Doe!!! It's broke again...


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