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SEIU Member "Wobblie"

Anything to do with Healthcare providers in Canada. Care-Aids, Nurses, CSW's PSW's, Home Health, Hospice, Long Term, Acute Care, anything like that.
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NC
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SEIU Member "Wobblie"

Postby NC » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:50 pm

So... our little effort here on LabourTalk has never tried to be politically correct. We have *always* tried to be honest and truthful. John Doe sent me a copy of an email exchange with "Wobblie", an SEIU member from Ontario. Yes, we do know what their name is now but as is our general practice, we don't disclose that on the site. If Wobblie want you all to know what his/her name is, they can post here at their leisure.

I can tell there are a lot of people reading this stuff, we can see that, but few ever post. I have my opinions about why and I expect you will draw some conclusions when you read the thread here.

On November 3, 2015 we got a request for membership from Wobblie. All such requests must be approved by me or John Doe. This process has an upside, it keeps hundreds of spammers from posting to the site every month. The downside, if one of us does not get to the site, an applicant can wait days for an approval. In Wobblie's case, it took 13 days... I apologized for this when I approved them and sent a short greeting email....
Normally I would type a big long greeting here but I am just too damn busy.

Welcome to the site, follow the rules and if you need anything, email me.

Welcome aboard.
On November 7th (still not approved yet) John Doe get's this email...
Mr. Doe, I have still not been given account access and the comments posted seem to be dated last year. Has this forum been closed down?

Yours,
Now, it's November 10th, Wobblie remains unapproved as I am working and the site has not had much use lately... my bad. Woblie sends John Doe a gentle reminder.
Coward. After reading much of the trash on your forum I’m not surprised you don’t have the courage to grant me access or even respond.

Fear the truth, quell enlightenment…shame on you.
Chronologically, I approved Wobblie on November 14, not knowing about this email to John I sent that little note above. John Doe finally checked his email (he works too) I got a call from him telling me that there is a very irate SEIU member sending him email because we have not approved him for posting. I explain my lackadaisical approval, apologize to him and send Wobblie another email...
I had a chat with JD this morning, he explained that we had dropped the ball getting you to the site. I mentioned to him that I had not been on for almost a week and in that time you had joined.

I have interacted with an SEIU group before that wanted to get out of the union. I guess they were swept in and wanted to get a vote. I am not to clear what happened in the end on that but suffice it to say, they did use the site to some effect. In the end I now recall that they got the vote and stayed with the SEIU.

One of our folks had sent me a note saying that a pro-union group might be signing up to get a private room, invisible to the general public. If that's you just let either me or John know and we can start that process.

Again, sorry about taking so long to get you signed up and I hope we can help.

NC
John send Wobblie and email, John's first on the matter.
Interesting. While the forum is still active, it hasn’t been something that has required day to day monitoring by myself. The number of honest sign ups that we get are minimal and rare, many are simply spammers trying to gain a foothold to spread their damage. I did not intentionally ignore or dismiss your email and I take offense to you indicating that I did so. Seriously, courage? This is the internet where anonymity reigns supreme. Where every person has a degree in everything. There was no ignorance, just your email buried in SPAM in an account that doesn’t get as much attention as it probably should. I’m not afraid of your “truth” nor am I quelling your “enlightenment”. I’m just a guy trying to make a living while going to school and supporting a family and I happen to have neglected one of many sites that I manage for slightly too long. In your own words, shame on you for making assumptions.

Anywho, after looking at the log, your account was activated on November 16 by one of the other Admins. Feel free to post away. All comments are subject to being deleted if they are spammy (selling products, etc). Otherwise your opinions are welcome.

Cheers,

JD
Wobblie is now allowed to post, they do not... and has not ever posted. They did send a lovely note to John sort of apologizing for making an assumption...
Hmmm, although you have misinterpreted my comment on enlightenment, and attempted to misdirect any anonymity concerns, (which I find odd as it was not raised or solicited by myself and is therefore a “sketchy” statement) I’ll thank you for responding and admit that there was an aspect of assumption on my part.

While you may well be “just a guy trying to make a living while going to school and supporting a family…”, understand that as a moderator of the site (or Management as you prefer) I find that some of your advise and the advice of some of the other moderators could do a lot of damage to other guys trying to make a living in a Unionized workplace when prompting them to decertify rather than rectify.

I’ll do my best to balance your site with some statistics that your posters may find interesting to read.
Well, now we know that we will one day hear from Wobblie to "balance our site"... this note was about a week ago, so far nothing but fingers crossed.

Now that John has engaged he sends a note back to Wobblie:
You have misinterpreted the site then if you believe we are “prompting them to decertify rather than rectify.” We are offering choices, which neither a company nor a Union will do on their own. We are offering the information, which can be extremely difficult to find anywhere without talking with expensive lawyers, necessary to decertify should a person or persons be left with no other choice but to decertify due to a Union’s apathy. We also have information on how to deal with your Union/union in a method which does not result in decertification, though few have asked for it.

A Union forces a company to listen to their concerns by holding a strike vote and forcing their “brothers and sisters” to take minimal pay (if any) to stand on the street and protest the company in an effort to damage the company’s bankroll. But, what does a person do when the Union is the one who doesn’t want to listen? Please don’t tell me voting in meetings. We both know that the meetings are a waste of time. I have yet to visit a single meeting at any of the Union’s I’ve been a part of where legitimate concerns were actually addressed. Union’s don’t care, they only care that they get their dues. Sure there are unions out there that are good for their members, but they’ve become a rarity in the day of Unions such as SWU, IBEW and others.

The point is, we’re not here ONLY for decertification. We are here to offer information and a choice. I would suggest emailing and talking with NC over at (NC's email address). He’s the most active on the board and has the most amount of information to offer.

Regards,

JD
NOTE: this is the sort of stuff we want to have on the site, readable for all. Wobblie... I am posting this here so you understand that LabourTalk is about the truth and no opinion is wrong, it's an opinion and open to discussion. We welcome feedback and input on this and as long as no one is threatened and it is polite, or at least respectful, you can continue here for as long as you like.

So, onwards, here is Wobblie's next email:
…You sir are fundamentally wrong. No one is hiding the Canadian Charter Rights and Freedoms. One doesn’t need a lawyer to interpret the concept of the freedom of association.

You know what, it’s individuals like yourself that I personally find offensive. Tell me something, do you inform individuals of all ramifications when you offer up “choices”? Or do individuals only get the benefit of the choices as you see them? Never once on your site did I see it mentioned of a cooling off period of 1 year after a decertification. Do you have any idea what an employer can do with these newly decertified workers in a year!?

How about after that year? What Union will come in to help pick up the pieces of whatever is left as far as solidarity is concerned? Your advise is flawed and incomplete. The ramifications reach into the Canadian family unit which is the binding thread of our society. I’ve seen marriages fall apart because a parent lost a job. I’ve seen homes lost, lives destroyed due to employment circumstances.

From the advise you give, the choices you offer, I can tell you’re just a guy trying to make a living and going to school, but do your readers know that!? You are playing with peoples lives.

You know that Union’s aren’t businesses right? They are not driven by the almighty dollar. Ask a United Steel official how much cash it earned taking Coca Cola to court. If not the Union, who else is to combat the exploitation, at times murder of workers? “Labour Talk” indeed. Clueless for certain.

Take care.
Well, from this it looks like Wobblie is going to back down and creep away, we'll see. John Doe offers some input. this is going to be hard to do because there are quotes nested in quotes and it has been a long time since I did this. basically, this is Wobblie's email with John Doe's comments inserted.
…You sir are fundamentally wrong.
Always a good start to an email, so I’ll bite:
…You sir are fundamentally … blinded by Unionism.

One doesn’t need a lawyer to interpret the concept of the freedom of association.
You are correct. Nobody needs a lawyer to interpret the right to freedom of association. The issue is the freedom of disassociation. If I don’t want to take part in paying a Union to wear the pants for me, then too bad, I’m out of a job. You do not have the right to not associate with that Union, no matter how much you enjoy your job. Read that carefully, because I said the job. It’s not the Union providing the job, it’s the company. As much as you’d like to tell me that the Union is the reason it’s such a sweet job, you’d be dead wrong. Every company I’ve worked with that had Union “representation” was a poisoned atmosphere full of people who hated their jobs, but stuck with it because they wanted (or rather needed) Union protection.
You know what, it’s individuals like yourself that I personally find offensive.
Unfortunately for you, political correctness is not my thing. I could care less if my opinion offends you. I have no illusion that I’m going to change your mind as to how you believe a Union treats their members nor do I care if it changes. If you don’t want my opinion, you are free to stop emailing me. That is also your right under Canadian law. I, personally, find it entertaining and I’ve always enjoyed a good debate.
Tell me something, do you inform individuals of all ramifications when you offer up “choices”? Or do individuals only get the benefit of the choices as you see them? Never once on your site did I see it mentioned of a cooling off period of 1 year after a decertification. Do you have any idea what an employer can do with these newly decertified workers in a year!?
You are apparently unaware or completely in denial as to how frustrated these people are with the Unions that they have to resort to something as ridiculous as having to get rid of the people that are supposed to be protecting them. Imagine being so frustrated with an association who won’t listen to you, no matter how valid your concerns are. The frustration of paying people to protect you and who hold your employment future in your hands and they will not, for whatever reason, listen to you. No matter what we tell these people, they are angry, apathetic, frustrated and at the ends of their ropes. Do you honestly think they care what the Union or their representatives say? How about those that were involuntarily forced into the Union by a technicality, even though they had a perfectly good thing going with the company? How about those same people who have seen a decline in their work atmosphere since the Union took over? Do you think of them? No, of course not. The almighty Union reigns supreme!
The ramifications reach into the Canadian family unit which is the binding thread of our society. I’ve seen marriages fall apart because a parent lost a job. I’ve seen homes lost, lives destroyed due to employment circumstances.

From the advise you give, the choices you offer, I can tell you’re just a guy trying to make a living and going to school, but do your readers know that!? You are playing with peoples lives.


And likewise, I’ve seen marriages fall apart because a Union forced the employees into a strike (without a strike vote) and the families lost their homes. Yeah, that was the Union’s fault. The Union played with their member’s lives and decided to send them to the lines for $200/week while the leadership continued to make their regular wages during an illegal strike. Before you start screaming what a horrible liar I am, check the TWU strike of 2005 against TELUS Communications in BC. Because contrary to the Union’s propaganda, the membership wasn’t locked out until they walked off the job in an illegal strike. Kind of hard to lock the membership out in a 24 hour job when they’re sitting at their desks. The membership was pushed into $200/week from July until October. How many people do you think can survive on $800/month. Obviously not the leadership, but that’s ok, because they made regular wages the whole time. Now who’s playing with lives? The Union or the person trying to help those people make a living while not having to deal with a poisoned work atmosphere from Union interference and scare mongering?
You know that Union’s aren’t businesses right? They are not driven by the almighty dollar.
By legal definition, no. But not driven by the almighty dollar? Really? There are enough Unions out there where the bosses, business agents, etc are staying at luxury hotels all over the world trying to bolster membership or chant rallying cries to those poor lost souls who aren’t “protected” by a Union to make that a false statement.

As an important side note, there are a few good unions out there. Unions that are worth every penny their membership puts in. Unions that fight for inequalities and provide a source of checks and balances for the companies they work with (Read as: a mutually beneficial agreement for both workers and company). Unfortunately, though, they have become few and far between. There are far too many Unions abusing their membership that those smaller unions get painted with the wrong brush.

Hope your day is going well,

JD
So there you have it, I will not dig at Wobblie's arguments. A group of SEIU members petitioned once to get a vote to decertify a union on this site, that is what has got Wobblie all bent out of shape. (it's also in a private room that Wobblie can't see). Since then, and prbably what is driving Wobblie here now is that there is another SEIU group that want to talk privately about their bargaining but that would mean the SEIU does not control all thought processes and information dissemination, so they will be running back to their membership telling them that LabourTalk is anti-union, eats live babies and should not be trusted.

No skin off of our noses, thanks for trying to help the SEIU membership WW (You readers don't know him, he helps out around here from time to time) but I suspect they will have to count on only the SEIU's systems for communication.

Wobblie, PLEASE try harder to listen to ALL the members... I know you think you are but if your rant is what you truly believe... you are missing something fundamental. You should listen harder to ALL the members, not just the ones that scream your praises... hopefully we hear more form you. I miss these little chats.
Last edited by JohnDoe on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Making it easier to read the nested quotes


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Re: SEIU Member "Wobblie"

Postby NC » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:32 am

It really bugs me that guys like Wobblie (Union Executive) don't have the nuts to just interact. I know for a fact that some Health Care members who are not allowed to state union-free mind set in any way. SEIU's constitution is pretty hard on dissenters. The s**t is in the fan in Ontario right now with the dissolution of the CCAC so all these "members" have no choice but to pay the pound of flesh to SEIU and they are making absolutely no effort to connect with these people. They don;t have to.

Now, if the SEIU want to unionize more workplaces... and it is one of their mandates in a big way... you can bet your a** they will be licking and sucking anyone in the Health Care industry to tell them how great they are.

If you are considering unionization by the SEIU in Ontario because the CCAC is folding up... learn more than you already know.

Wobblie, come talk to us, I know you are reading this stuff - I want to know what you are going to do for all those juicing potential dues paying union-free PSW's in Ontario.

:bom:


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